Hey guys. Welcome back to Habits and Humor Podcast, where we talk about all things, habits, health, happiness, and we keep it as simple as possible for you so that you can start today. To do the thing you know you wanna do and actually be able to do it. One of those things that we wanna talk about that you might want to do, some of us are considering living a dairy-free lifestyle.
Some of us have been given some information from a doctor or a health professional, or someone telling us that perhaps removing dairy from our diet would be helpful for our overall health, the way that we feel and what is going on in our bodies. So today I wanted to bring in a guest who has a phenomenal amount of experience in this area and has, he has a very intense dairy, intolerance.
And so I know that he cannot have it at all, and so I thought he would be a good guest to come on here. welcome to the show, John. Stop. Thank you. Appreciate that. Yeah, thanks for being here, John. So let's just start, I mean, where did you find out about your dairy intolerance and what kind of made you start to, to live this way, to have this be part of the way that you
Yeah, so I think first we should say that, dairy usually includes eggs. And so mine is more of a milk intolerance as opposed to a dairy. So dairy usually includes eggs, and I just wanna be really specific on that. But when, when I was a teenager, about 16, I was in high school and I would get these shakes.
I just, I was working out a lot. I wanted a lot of calories and so I'd get these peanut butter milkshakes and just thought it was a really great way to get a lot of calories. And then I'd noticed the next day or two, I actually started to get a mild cold like symptom. And so stopped eating the shakes.
Cause I thought maybe they had something wrong with their peanut butter or something. Wasn't really sure what was going on. And then it just got worse and I would get sick and I got so sick I couldn't even swallow anything. my throat was inflamed. I had I had ulcers on my gums. It was just absolutely horrible.
And so I would stop eating of course, and I'd get better. Not knowing that I was allergic to the whey protein and milk, I would actually start eating again my normal diet, and then I'd get sick again. And that went on for about a year and a half. And it was so bad that I was almost at the point where I wasn't gonna graduate because I was just, I couldn't get to class.
I was so sick. I. Wow. Went to a regular doctor. He diagnosed me with, with a sinus infection, which was correct, but we didn't know what was causing the sinus infection. Ultimately went to a naturopathic physician and for some reason she just picked up on it and she says, I think you're allergic to whey protein.
So we went on what's called an elimination diet and I cut out everything but chicken and broccoli and rice and I was doing great. Started adding foods back in and as soon as I did anything that had raw milk in it, cheese, sour cream, milk itself, ice cream, didn't matter, got sick. And then over the years, if I ever got exposed to it accidentally, cuz I obviously tried to avoid it, it got really worse to the point where I had to carry an EpiPen and very concerned about getting hospitalized and things like that, even from small amounts of milk.
Wow. So it kept getting worse as you got older?
Very much so. Yeah. Yeah.
Interesting. I think a lot of, allergies that we have as kids usually tend to get better as we get older and not as intense. So do they explain to you why it tended to get worse as you got older or do you have any idea on the progression of that?
No. Have absolutely no idea. And, you know, talking about my food allergies, I've come across people that, I've met, people that lived on the East Coast and we'd eat shellfish all the time and they'd come over here and eat West Coast shellfish. Being an adult and just couldn't eat it. Or they would eat X, y, Z their entire life and then one day in their, you know, past being a child, obviously they just couldn't eat it anymore.
So we don't really know if it's autoimmune related or if it's genetic or, we, we really don't know. So, I've just avoided it, obviously, and who knows, sometimes these things ebb and flow, so I might be available to dairy again, and I just don't know, and I'm just kind of not willing, willing to risk it at this
So, Interesting. I know that you and I were at a party once, so you guys, John is my sister's boyfriend, and so he and I have, um, I mean we've known each other for several years now, and, uh, he, we went to a party together and there was some wasabi and you said that even just like one little lick of wasabi will make you incredibly sick.
It's to that point right. It
was, I don't know if it's still the case, but it certainly was. I had a, so I enjoy decaf coffee and I make sure that they put soy milk or I actually prefer coconut milk in it. And, uh, they mis made it and I got a little sip of it and I was sick for, for weeks. I, I mean, just, just imagine the worst head cold with migraines and, and, and all the symptoms that go with it, fever and everything.
And it was from a small trace of
mountain. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. So you started with an elimination diet and the three things you said you, you would only eat chicken, broccoli, and rice. What's the philosophy behind that? Why would you not eliminate those three?
Well, it's actually a really good question.
The doctor recommended it, and I can't say a hundred percent, but most people tolerate those things really well. so you can usually talk to someone who has an allergy to milk or an allergy to peanuts or an allergy to something. , those things tend not to be very allergy promoting, and they tend to provide all the nutrients that you need, so you're getting the stomach fill from the rice, so hopefully you're not getting hungry and craving other things and going off your diet.
Broccoli covers a whole range of things where you're obviously getting into all your minerals and vitamins and stuff like that, and then the protein from the chicken. So you know, ideally you're not gonna starve to death in the short term. So,
That's a good solution. We don't wanna start to death. So what are some of the experience or some of the symptoms that we might experience if we need to start using, like maybe start tending toward dairy-free if, what might we be having?
What are some symptoms we could have that would give us a clue? Yeah.
So one of the things that I've always found, and it still happens to me if I ever get, uh, a small amount of dairy in my diet, is that you'll feel very, for lack of a better term, you'll feel very phlemmy. So you'll feel mucus starting to be generated.
And that is my understanding is that is an immune response. That is your body trying to prepare for this immune response. And so it is a very common thing. Gastric or stress is obviously another one too. So, Milk and, and dairy products, they tend to go through the gastrointestinal system fairly quickly.
And so if you are eating something and then with an hour or two you'll notice you're having some type of gastric distress, that's a good sign of lactose intolerance or even potentially an allergy.
Okay, awesome. So we have these symptoms we go to, should we go immediately to elimination diet or is there a simpler beginning?
Like is there a couple of things that we should try to cut out first? What's, what's the process to begin this discovery?
Well, I'm a big fan of an elimination diet and not just because of dairy, but because I think you don't really know what your body is responding to. So we have so many things that impact our body.
Dietary wise, the things we drink, there's people that are allergic to food coloring. You just don't know all the things that you're doing to your body. Cuz we take in so much synthetic stuff right now. So I'm a big fan of an elimination diet and typically my clients, they tend to feel amazing on it.
And then you start introducing stuff and you see how negative this stuff can be. I've had people that have gone dairy free, not because they need to, but because we just suggested that they do. And they can't stand the taste of it after they're off of it for about six months. That it is just, yeah, it is.
And I don't know if that's, you know, that could be the placebo effect and it could be just that we've accustomed ourselves to the taste of it. but I am a big fan of it, elimination diet, really getting rid of all the synthetic stuff, the stuff that we just generally don't need in our diet. And then reintroducing stuff are every 30 days.
So every 30 days you'll chunk in something. So I'm gonna add fish back in, or I'm gonna add this back in, whatever it is. But it's a really good way to get, office synthetic processed foods. and I count dairies being a processed food cuz it tends to have hormones and antibiotics and stuff like that in it.
But at the same time, it's very difficult to do and we have such an abundance of food that tastes so good to us and when elimination diet, it takes a a huge feat of discipline for sure.
Yeah. So you're saying 30 days at a time. Usually I recommend my clients to, you know, a consistent 72, 72 hours of a change, but 30 days.
How in the world are we supposed to manage that? Give us some hint and some tips on how to get through a 30 day illumination.
Yeah. Well, what, what I do is I try to do what we call an evolutionary process versus a revolutionary process. And what I mean by that is that if we can do something for 30 days, even if it's a small challenge, so I have a client right now, He drinks a ton of Diet Mountain Dew, or at least he used to.
And so he was taking in about 48 ounces to 52 ounces a day. And so you're getting the caffeine, you're getting the artificial sweeteners, you're getting the, the food coloring and all this stuff. And so I just asked them to cut back one bottle and just do that for a month. And so this gradual process really becomes very easy.
And then once you've mastered that step for those 30 days, then you can say, oh, that wasn't that difficult. I'm actually succeeding at it. And I feel that success is what allows people to take on the next challenge. Doing a complete, revolutionary, revolutionary change to your diet, it can be really overwhelming.
It's hard to be successful so you don't stick with it. You become depressed cuz you feel like you're not being successful with your diet and then you don't see the changes and so you kind of give up on
it. Agreed. One of my favorite quotes is Success Breed Success. It's on my bedroom wall, and, uh, I just think that if you can see that you can do something, it encourages you and motivates you from within your brain to realize that, okay, if I can do the simple things, then I have a.
Then I can do the harder things.
Yeah, I agree. And I think it's a nice positive feedback too. On top of that, if you see a health change, whether you're trying to lose weight or like in myself, I was actually healthy and I wasn't getting sick anymore, then that just reinforces what you said. So it's, it's kind of a, a double feedback at that point For sure.
Yeah, for sure. That's awesome. so let's, what's one of the first things, like one of the first steps in this evolutionary diet, if we're realizing like, okay, maybe diet or maybe dairy isn't good for me, or maybe something, whatever it is, it doesn't necessarily have to be dairy. If there's something that we should eliminate.
Do you have a recommendation of what should go first? Like what's the most, What's wreaking havoc the most that maybe if you pull this one out, maybe that will make a big difference.
Yeah. Well, and I think everything we should probably back up and say everything we talk about, you should probably consult your doctor because we can get into some issues where if we go a little bit too far too crazy.
So if you're not sure, talk to your doctor. Um, they obviously have a ton more experience than I do with this stuff. That being said, I don't think you can go wrong. By reducing or cutting out sugar out of your diet? For sure. And so if you look at some of the most pro-inflammatory things that we have in our diet, usually it's synthetic foods and processed sugar.
, and ironically milk has lactose in it, which is a type of sugar. So,
Pulling sugar out of our diet. All right. So I like that advice a lot. is there a benefit In my client's programming, we do, we have sugar built into the program so that you can, you know, still enjoy the things you wanna enjoy, but it, it becomes a special occasion kind of a thing.
Sure. And so is there a benefit to, you know, some days on, some days off, like for my clients, they get two, free servings of sugar per week built into the program. Is that a benefit or does it need to be like all or nothing?
Well, I, I always go back to ancestral living. Sorry, my dog is here. Quiet. we, I always go back to ancestral living.
So if you look at what goes on, when we were ancestor, when our ancestors were on the planet, they weren't able to have all this access to sugar. They didn't have access to all this fruits and everything. So when we sit here as Americans and we look, we take in so much sugar, we've taken in so much, and I really don't think that the poison is the sugar.
I think it's the dosage. For sure, whether it's the, the amount or the frequency is kind of up for a debate where we do have to be careful that we don't take in too much of the stuff. There are many, many sweeteners out there right now that don't impact our insulin response and don't have a high glycemic index.
And so for example, monk fruit oil or monk fruit oil extract. It has zero impact on the insulin of your body. So when we take in sugar, we respond with insulin, and insulin either forces us to store it, which is usually what happens, or we try to use it. And so of course we store this thing as body fat, unless we use it.
So when you get something like Monkfruit oil and it has shown to have other benefits as well, it has the same effect on the taste buds, that it's very sweet. It doesn't take a lot of it to make something taste sweet, but you get the same satisfaction. It still still has the satiety involved in it. And there's one by Monkfruit Oil.
You can get it off Amazon. It's, it's, it's super easy. It's good. Yeah, you can get it as a powder or as an oil and, and things like that. Mira Culin is another really good one too. So you can take Mira Culin, you'll take a lemon, and you'll cut a lemon open. You'll bite into the lemon, and of course it's gonna be very sour.
And it's gonna be, you know, you're not very palatable. You'll take Mira Culin and wait a couple seconds and you bite into the same lemon. You know, it'll tastes like lemonade. So it literally blocks this. Yeah. It literally blocks the sour pals and the sour taste buds on your tongue.
This blows my mind right now.
I'm just talking about lemons, makes my mouth salivate
and it lasts for about 10 or 15 minutes and then it just, Goes away. and so some of the things that we look at and we say there are solutions to this stuff. Are they cheap? Are they the easiest? No. But if we really wanna make health a priority, we do have to look at some of these alternatives.
I like that. Look at the alternatives and just realize like maybe some of the things that we want aren't necessarily the things that we need and the things that we need are, should be the things that prioritize over what we want. Yeah. And, that's a mental game there. But, for, for your experience in particular, I know sometimes it's helpful to, you know, get.
Education or get help or get assistance from other people. I know you have a story of a time recently when someone outside of yourself, I mean obviously you have a lot of experience and you know what you're talking about and you do the research, but you needed someone else to kind of, to keep you in line lately.
Tell us of that story.
Yeah, so it's, it's a good moral to the story cuz it's. It's, you know, I always say that two pairs of eyes are better than one pair. so I, I do take supplements. I do think we do need to supplement that. It's difficult to get all the nutrients that we need. And I take a variety of things for a variety of reasons.
And, Whitney, she came up to me and she says, Hey, she says, do any of your supplements really affect your liver enzymes or any of these other things? And, and they do, cuz your liver has to filter everything. It's a giant sponge. It holds all the toxins that your body doesn't want to deal with. And it just kind of sets 'em to the side.
And I says, yeah, of course I do. And she says, you're looking a little jaundice. And jaundice means you're getting a little bit yellowish, right? To an extreme version. it can be very life-threatening. you can kind of get this, if you eat a ton of carrots, people will get this, this tone to their skin and everything.
But it made me very concerned and I was getting what we, recently I had been, before that I'd been getting what we call epigastric pain and. It's just very superficial, right underneath the ribs, and it was so intense. It would drop me. I would literally, I'd be in the shower, I'd be walking and just outta nowhere.
I felt like a knife was in my ribs. It's just absolutely excruciating and I'm not, I mean, I do martial arts and stuff, so I'm not shy of pain, and it dropped me. I couldn't breathe anything, and so I went through all my supplements and I looked at everything and the short version of the story is I was getting a toxic level of zinc in my diet through my foods and through my supplements.
It was all adding up to be too much. I. And one of the signs of zinc overdose is epigastric pain. This really sharp, intense pain by your ribs. What had happened is that I had added a supplement and then some of my supplements had changed their formulas to the point where I, I was just kidding too much, and I don't know if I ever would've connected it.
You see yourself in the mirror every day. I don't know if you would see yourself generally get more and more yellow and how, how bad it could have gotten. she had been gone for three or four days working and then she came back and she's a nurse, ,in trade, and so she noticed it right away. And it's a, i, I think it's just a really good, a really good thing to step back and take a look at everything that you take in.
We get so used to our routines that we don't really realize what we're doing to our body sometimes. but also just to get outside viewpoints. We may not like the answer. I didn't like the answer that I wasn't taking the right supplements and I wasn't being smart about what I was doing, but for sure it needed to be said.
Agreed. I totally, I think that story is a great example of just, I mean, you obviously know what you're doing and she is looking from the outside in and able to see something that you can't see, which is I think just a testament to, and then that you listened. I think that's another testament to you is that sometimes we have that, uh, That pride or that, uh, I don't know, confidence in ourselves that, oh, I know what I'm talking about and maybe you don't have the experience here, but to be open to actually listening to, you know, people around you who are trying to help, who maybe do have a little bit of insight, whether they have.
Um, expertise or not, it's, it's interesting or it's smart to just be open to, you know, getting, receiving help from those around you who care about you and who are looking out for your best interest. Yeah,
for sure. Especially when it's people who care about you. I think we can go to a doctor and. You know, there's, there's different levels of, of primary care out there, and they're, you know, they're not all Harvard graduates and so they're trying to crank through patients just like all the rest of us are trying to get through our jobs and our days.
And they get a little numb to the information too. But if you have a loved one comes up and says, Hey, you need to take a look at this, I think we really need to take a moment, step back and just say, this, this person has my best interest in, in their mind. They're not saying this because they need to get through, you know, 12 patients today or something like that.
Valid point? I think. So let's go to supplements for a minute. There's a lot of people that ask questions about supplements often, and I don't start people on supplements until they have formed some, consistent habits. First, I start people on their healthy habits first, and then we bring in supplements because in my philosophy, supplements supplement, which you're already doing, that's why they're called what they are.
Sure. And if you are taking a supplement with a poor health, an unhealthy lifestyle, you're. It's not really going to process well, it's not really going to have effect, but if you have those things in place that you already have started and things are moving the way that they should be, and you're getting some balance and some good proper nutrition and exercise and things like that first, then when you add these supplements in, they actually have an impact.
What are your thoughts on that?
I agree with you and the, the one caveat I would say is that it depends on how far off the person is. So if you have a person that they're just a little bit off track, and maybe they're just a little bit overweight and they're not as active as they want to be, I 100% agree with everything that you just said.
You have to keep in mind, statistically, about 70% of the population of the United States is deficient in vitamin D. And vitamin D is essential for almost every mechanism that is, that occurs in our body immune system and everything. So if we took someone and we said, Hey, I'm gonna supplement you with vitamin D, which is super easy to do, it's hard to overdose, unlike zinc, and we can get it readily available at grocery stores and Amazon and all these other things.
And add that in with what you're talking about, we may actually get a synergistic response to what's going on. And so do they have the energy to start working out, would they, if they're on vitamin D? and, and we start getting into some health concerns too, you know, like, liver disease and stuff like that, where supplementation can fix that quicker.
Then diet alone by itself. So when we start talking about, you know, alcohol consumption and stuff like that, we start getting fatty liver disease. So could you stop drinking the alcohol or can you slowly reduce alcohol and start taking a supplement that actually can help you preserve your liver? And so I think sometimes those things have to be in conjunction and it's, it's a case by case basis.
I, I don't think there's, I don't think there's one recipe that you can write that would cover every person.
I agree. Yeah, no, that's a good point though. The, the vitamin D especially, I think there are some things, some supplements that will help you from day one. but I think it's hard to tell what is the best method for adding those supplements in.
Like I know that when you have babies, they give you vitamin D drops that you're supposed to give your baby as a liquid. And then I know that there are, Vitamin pills and I know that there are vitamin soluble, water soluble vitamins. You dissolve, like do you have opinions on what kind of, what way is the best to get these vitamins and minerals and micronutrients in your body that actually will be processed and used?
Well, it completely de depends upon the vitamin and nutrients. So you'll have some vitamins that are water soluble and you have some vitamins that are fat soluble. So we'll take vitamin D as an example, vitamin D, and technically it's not a vitamin, it's, it is a hormone, but it is fat soluble. And so they're showing that if you consume fat, Immediately before, during, or after your vitamin D supplementation, you have more bioavailability and you absorb it better.
So that is one example where we can say, I have vitamin D, but how and when do I take it is just as important as the dosage. So we start looking at, what we start, and we're getting kind of deep here, but what we get into what we call dissolution versus absorption. So just because it dissolves in the stomach doesn't mean that you absorb it.
And calcium is a really big example of that. So when we start talking about milk and dairy, are we reducing our calcium intake and do we need more calcium? And do we know that vitamin D helps us, us absorb calcium? So getting back to your question, I think getting our nutrients from our food is by far the best source.
But we have to ask ourselves, are we eating the right diet? And does our food still have the same? Health benefits in it that it had before. Are we getting farm raised fish versus wild fish? And there are arguments about which one is better at this point. So I do think food is really the best source. That being said, vitamins that are bioavailable tend to be from food-based products.
And so you'll actually have vitamins that are made out of food as opposed to just minerals that are not bioavailable and they tend to advertise it and they tend to be the more expensive brand for
sure. No, I agree with you. I think that there are definitely options out there for, the good stuff. And I like that you're saying that it comes from food.
Like if you're reading the back of the bottle and you know, you see things in there that are like, you know, you're super foods and, and they're actually listed out there, then you know that those are possibly a good option for you. But again, consider what else you're doing. Consider talking to your doctor about this, your professionals, and, and again, it's, it's gonna be personalized to you.
So let's reign this back in really quickly here. Back to, the dairy and some of the things that you've had to eliminate from your diet. A lot of people struggle with elimination because they feel deprived. How do you deal with that feeling? How do you deal with that? You know, thought process.
Yeah. Well, for me personally, it was very easy cuz I was, I kind of felt like I either had to do it or else I was gonna be kind of incapacitated.
And so it was really an easy, easy decision for me. I would say that things are easier for people in general now because they didn't have all the milk substitutes back then. So we're talking 35 years ago that they have now, you didn't have coconut milk, soy milk was available, but it was hard to find.
And so now you actually have. Dairy free cheeses and vegan foods and these things that you can pretty much guarantee that they're dairy free. So that being said, if I have clients that are in the same position that I'm in, I recommend again that that evolutionary process that takes time. And so, as an example, if you really enjoy having milk with your cereal and you tried some other milk substitute, for example, soy milk, maybe start mixing it in.
So that you get 20% soy milk and 80% regular milk, and then do that for those 30 days, like, oh, that's not so bad. And keep in mind that these milk substitutes generally are fortified. Now they do have calcium and vitamin D and magnesium minimum the same as that our milk does. So we're not, we shouldn't be losing nutrients in that regard.
And then the next month, they get 40, 60 in the next month, and then pretty soon you should be there. It is a way to do it. I will say there are really good milk substitute foods out there that are really good. And I've had people try them and they can't tell that they're dairy free. The science has gotten so good that they know how to affect our taste buds and our satiety so that we can say, yeah, this is really satisfying.
Are there ones out there that don't taste as good? Absolutely. Absolutely. and so for example, if anyone out there wants to try a dairy-free alternative, there is a type of, uh, whipped cream that's out there and it's made with coconut. And it's the brand. The manufacturer is so delicious and it's called Cocoa Whip and it's amazing.
It is absolutely amazing. And I've had people actually switch to it cause they think it's better than regular whip clean.
Well, that's good to know. Yeah, there are just simple options. So do you buy these, I mean, are, are these readily available at normal grocery stores or do we have to look in specific places for these or get on subscriptions?
Where do we find these vegan products that are, you know, non-dairy?
Yeah, most grocery stores will have them. Obviously the bigger the grocery store, the wider the selection. you know, in our local area, Rolands, Fred Meyer, they are both very good sources and I would say they, they both have their pros and cons between those two stores.
But Fred Meyer. You know, I've been in various states, they almost always have a phenomenal health food section where you can get vegan choices and, gluten-free choices and things like that. they tend to be a little bit more pricey, but again, you have to kind of decide what your, what your relevant importance is as your health versus budget and things like that.
And that's easy to say and it's hard to do. But Fred Meyers and Bros, they are both great alternatives to finding those, those, uh, Food sources and selections that you just can't get at your average grocery store, you're certainly not gonna find 'em at a convenience store. You're not gonna stop at Maverick or Am PM or 7-Eleven and, and find these food
sources for sure.
Awesome. So we need to just plan ahead a little bit and look for what the other options are and then work into it. I like what you said about the, adding, you know, the new kind of milk with the old kind of milk and, and changing the ratio as you go, and then you'll just, uh, train yourself that. To accept it as you go instead of, you know, cold Turkey or all at once.
Sometimes that's a difficult transition to make, so that makes it a little bit easier. so John, tell us a little bit, I know, you were talking earlier, you mentioned that you are a martial martial arts instructor. You guys, John taught me and my kids a couple years ago and it was so, so awesome. So I just wanted to give you the opportunity to tell us what you do and if you guys are resonating with this information or if you want to, um, train with John, he's gonna tell us.
But I mean, tell us, how do we. Get ahold of you and what all do you
do here? Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. I've been doing martial arts for 35 years, so right now I do personal training, both in martial arts and fitness. Obviously I know some stuff about nutrition. I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not a dietician, but I feel like I know enough that I can kind of steer people the right way.
I do have a website. It's phoenix.fitness. And if you go to that, you can find out more about me and what I do. and yeah, that's basically it. I've been doing this forever and I just, I find it as a great way to not only help other people, but helps me stay in shape too. So,
Wonderful. Well, I appreciate what you're doing and I appreciate you being here and taking the time to tell us a little bit about your personal experience as well as, you know, some, some small, simple things that we can do.
And at the end of every show, we like to send our listeners away with three habits or three things, three small shifts that we can make today so that we can put into action what we've been talking about right here, right now. Do you have three habits or three simple takeaways for us today?
I think the one thing is, is that if you can cut back on your sugar, and that may not have anything to do with dairy, but just in general, look at your sugar, calculate it. You'll be shocked at how much you eat. I try to keep to about 25 grams a day, which is low, and that is sugar, not carbohydrates.
Carbohydrates are, you know, a big category of sugar. two, if you're gonna make any changes. Try to do it over time. It is so rewarding to feel that success and actually see the change of working towards something. if you can do it cold Turkey, more power to you. It's, it, it takes a huge effort. But, if you can do it over time, I think people will make those habits last.
and the third thing is, is just make sure you supplement with exercise. That's exercise is one of the best cures for almost any disease. Doesn't matter what it is. You'll have someone that comes in and they're, they have type two diabetes. Exercise. Exercise is a great cure all. So those, those are the things I try to tell my clients in general, for sure.
Awesome. Well, thank you John. I appreciate it. And you guys, if you are interested in learning more about this stuff, go to Phoenix, stop Fitness and he's a great resource. He's great fun, and he is really, really good at what he does. He's very, very knowledgeable and just, It's awesome and it's a different way of exercising if you have an exercise routine that you're kind of sick of or you're bored with.
Martial arts is different than other things that I've done and I thoroughly enjoyed it, so I highly recommend it and I highly recommend John. I just think he's wonderful. So thanks John. I appreciate you being here and I appreciate all your brilliance and, expertise that you shared with us.
Thank you. Happy to join in any, anytime.
Thanks for joining us this week on the Habits and Humor Podcast, where you come to learn about health and habits, and then take action if you're ready to take action and turn simple habits into massive results that last a lifetime, or you'd like to join our free live call with incredible guests every Tuesday.
Message me at Suzi b. Habits, that's S U Z I B, habits. On your favorite social media platform, and we'll get you in here, or you can join our free Habits and humor Facebook group for additional free resources. I'm Suzi B, and this is Habits and Humor. Come to laugh. Stay to learn. Choose to live.